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Pronouns v Profit: Are UK Firms Poised To Dump DEI?

Has the ‘vibe shift’ reached UK companies? Who’s to blame for risky policies and ‘inclusion’ practices that turned out to be such bad business? We have brand new insights to share – straight from the mouths of employers!

At the launch of our new business network ‘This Is Working’, 50 senior leaders, lawyers, HR professionals, risk experts and business owners gathered for a rare, open conversation. We also heard an exclusive talk by Alex Edmans, finance professor at London Business School, titled: ‘Was there ever a business case for DEI?’

What emerged from the evening was striking: the problems employers face today were not created just by activists and HR, but by decisions made across multiple departments — including legal, risk, compliance, recruitment, communications, and senior leadership.

In this candid episode, Tanya de Grunwald is joined by FTSE 100 Chief Strategy Officer Paul Sweeney and architect and business leader Patrik Schumacher (of Zaha Hadid Architects) to unpack why employers are finally ready to admit that everyone played a part in creating the current confusion and mess — and why only cross-functional honesty will get us out of it.

We cover:

IS THIS THE MOMENT PRIVATE-SECTOR EMPLOYERS FINALLY START TALKING TO EACH OTHER? Why did so many senior leaders turn up ready to speak openly — even on taboo topics? And what does it signal that, despite the sensitive themes, not one person opted out of being photographed?

HOW DID HR, LEGAL, RISK AND LEADERSHIP ALL CONTRIBUTE TO THE CURRENT PROBLEMS? From unlawful policies written without legal scrutiny, to risk teams who missed the clear dangers from HR policies, to leaders who dodged difficult conversations — how did so many disciplines independently make decisions that collectively led us here?

WHY WILL FIXING THIS REQUIRE A TEAM EFFORT? Employers now see that these challenges cut across policy, culture, governance and leadership. No single department can repair this alone. We explore why only joint, honest, cross-disciplinary discussions can untangle what’s gone wrong.

CAN WE MOVE FROM GROUPTHINK TO GROWTH? After years of silence, deference and “be kind” culture, organisations are realising how dangerous it is when teams stop challenging each other. What happens when leaders actively encourage disagreement, scrutiny and open debate again?

WHAT DID PROFESSOR ALEX EDMANS REVEAL ABOUT THE ‘BUSINESS CASE’ FOR DEI? We examine his keynote showing that demographic diversity was never the performance driver employers believed it to be — and why firms are now refocusing on cognitive diversity, evidence and commercial realism.

HOW DID WELL-MEANING POLICIES CREATE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES? From recruitment practices that illegally skew hiring, to training that shut down discussion, to policies that exposed organisations to legal and reputational risks — how did siloed decisions spiral into today’s problems?

WHY HAS DISABILITY BEEN IGNORED — AND WHAT DOES THAT TELL US We revisit powerful contributions about disability being crowded out by more fashionable causes. What can this teach employers about how “inclusion” drifted away from evidence, need and fairness?

WHY TALKING — OPENLY, HONESTLY, AND SOON — IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD Across the room there was agreement: employers must stop whispering and start talking. Only by sharing what’s gone wrong, and comparing notes across functions and organisations, can we rebuild workplaces that are lawful, functional and genuinely inclusive.

This is a hopeful, energising episode about the start of a new phase for UK employers — one in which leaders finally have the confidence to speak plainly, work collaboratively, and fix the problems created during a strange and turbulent decade of workplace culture change.

Enjoy the episode!

WISH YOU WERE THERE?
Buy our bundle including the video of Alex’s talk, and the anonymised report capturing the audience discussion https://bit.ly/47ZBokp
(It’s free to those who attended on the night – contact Tanya for details)

November 19, 2025
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Your Host: Tanya de Grunwald

Journalist, HR commentator, founder of the Good + Fair Employers Club and careers blog Graduate Fog, and listed as one of HR Magazine's 'Most Influential Thinkers'

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This Isn’t Working
This Isn’t Working

The podcast for employers and employees who think it’s time to talk about the failings of workplace culture – and how we can do better.

Host:
Tanya de Grunwald – Journalist, HR commentator, founder of the Good + Fair Employers Club and careers blog Graduate Fog, and listed as one of HR Magazine’s ’Most Influential Thinkers’

Listen OnApple Podcasts
Would You Hire An Eddie Izzard? (Ft. ‘Dr P’)
byTanya de Grunwald

Should people have to pretend their male colleague is female (or vice versa) just to keep their job? Until now, ‘trans inclusion’ has asked employers to put the comfort of trans-identifying staff first. But is it time for a more balanced approach, considering the impact on everyone around them, and the productivity of the organisation that employs them? 

Is using someone’s preferred pronouns really a small courtesy, or is it a greater imposition than it seems? And is affirming trans-identifying people actually helping them, or are their colleagues unwittingly digging them deeper into a belief that’s doing them harm?

To explore these questions, Tanya de Grunwald is joined by Dionne Joseph, a London-based clinical psychologist with more than 30 years’ experience who writes as ‘Dr P’ on X.
 
They ask:

– Did employers get so fixated on pronouns and toilets that they missed the bigger picture? Dionne argues they ‘made a molehill out of a mountain’, when the real question was whether some of these colleagues’ needs could ever be met in a workplace.

– What happens to a team’s productivity when everyone in the meeting is asked to pretend John is Jane? Drawing on the classic Stroop experiment, Dionne makes the case that asking people to override their instinct to recognise sex slows thinking, dampens performance and puts staff on edge, which is hardly a ‘small courtesy.’

– Is ‘I don’t mind a man wearing a dress to work, as long as I don’t have to pretend he’s a woman’ really a workable compromise? Tanya describes the unspoken power dynamic of small talk at the biscuit table. Dionne sees cross-dressing at work as a boundary violation and warns that every concession an employer makes will simply be followed by the next demand.

– Are employers doing trans-identifying staff any favours by affirming them? From office crowdfunders for top surgery to unsupervised staff network lunches, Dionne argues that every colleague who plays along risks digging the person deeper into what she sees as a mental health problem rather than an identity.

– Has the ‘kind’ employer quietly become a coercive controller of its female staff? Dionne says she is inundated with messages from women dreading Monday morning. She argues that mandatory lanyards, training and Pride screensavers impose a belief system on the very people expected to keep quiet about it.

– Why can’t staff admit that a colleague’s presentation gives them ‘the ick’? Tanya tackles the argument that any such reaction is on a par with racism. Dionne, who is black, explains why she finds that comparison profoundly insulting.

– Should employers be asking whether staff on high doses of cross-sex hormones are fit for safety-critical roles? Dionne argues the effects of these hormones on mood and cognition have never been properly studied. She says she’d want anyone taking them in a high-risk job, such as pilots, air traffic controllers or surgeons, to have regular neuropsychological testing.

Tanya isn’t asking Dionne to write anyone’s HR policy. As she says, that’s a job for employers and their lawyers, and a follow-up is already on the cards over at her new business network platform This Is Working (ThisIsWorking.net).

But she’s convinced this is a conversation sensible employers are already having behind closed doors, about who they hire, what they’re asking colleagues to go along with, and who is really paying the price for ‘inclusion.’ 

This is not one for the faint-hearted, but it might just be the conversation everyone’s having out loud a year from now.

Enjoy the episode…

Join Our New Network: This Is Working
https://thisisworking.net

Dr P on X
https://x.com/Psychgirl211

Would You Hire An Eddie Izzard? (Ft. ‘Dr P’)
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August 25, 2026
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Why Has Pride Died? 7 Reasons The Big Brands Bailed
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Have Employers Missed The Vibe Shift? (Ft. Brendan O’Neill)
March 3, 2026
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Is HR Holding Back British Business? (Ft. Akua Reindorf, Octavius Black, Neil Morrison, Steve Harrison)
February 24, 2026
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How Should Employers Handle Activist Staff? (Ft. Jaco van Zyl)
January 20, 2026
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Pronouns v Profit: Are UK Firms Poised To Dump DEI? (Ft. Patrik Schumacher & Paul Sweeney)
November 19, 2025
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Who Will Win The War On ‘Woke’ Workplaces? (Ft. Eric Kaufmann)
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